1
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I don't know if you even know how people to call, but LA Center referred me to you.

2
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Yes.

3
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And are you, you work for the Air Force?

4
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No sir, it's a private scientific organization.

5
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Does the information help anybody?

6
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Yes.

7
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Can nobody else see what I saw?

8
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Yes, it's all, it all goes into various research programs in this field.

9
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Oh, okay, well, I'm a pilot for IBM.

10
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Yes.

11
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And we're at flight level 450 and about 20 minutes ago.

12
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And we were coming from Hawaii and we were about 100 and,

13
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alright when I saw this guy, I took note of where we were, about 150 miles off the Santa Barbara,

14
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off the Santa Barbara 195 radio.

15
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Okay.

16
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And I was at 450 and this, this, this target comes up, you know, right, sort of right next to the wing.

17
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And you get closer and closer and I said to the, I said to LA Center, I said,

18
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what's the distance and the speed of that target?

19
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And they said there's no target.

20
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And I said, well there is.

21
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And they said no, there isn't.

22
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So I just let it go.

23
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I just thought that, you know, either it was an Air Force guy or something that was on a flight plan

24
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or a primary target or a transponder.

25
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Are you a pilot?

26
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:28,000
No, sir.

27
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But you know what I'm talking about, don't you?

28
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Yes.

29
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Okay.

30
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And they got closer and it was not an airplane.

31
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I can guarantee it was not an airplane.

32
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And I would ride at airspeed right next to us for about, well not next to us, I'd say,

33
00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:52,000
1,000 feet away, but the same altitude for about eight or nine minutes.

34
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And then took off at the same altitude about triple our speed.

35
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He was back in about less than 10 seconds.

36
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,000
We couldn't see him.

37
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The visibility was perfect today.

38
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And then he, he was sort of a back and stay in front of us and we waited there and then we caught up with him.

39
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And then he kept with us again for another two or three minutes.

40
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Then just climbed almost straight up and no thrust, no wings, no visible, no sort of,

41
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no direction to control it from.

42
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Just sort of just operate.

43
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No jet engine, no propellers.

44
00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:33,000
Okay.

45
00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,000
What was the defined shape?

46
00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:44,000
It was a software about 80 feet in diameter and had floodlights on it, recessed floodlights.

47
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They weren't turned on, but you can see the lenses.

48
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They were green, yellow and red.

49
00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,000
And those are round the turner.

50
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:54,000
Round the turner, yeah.

51
00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:55,000
Okay.

52
00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,000
It didn't rotate.

53
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It just, you know, stayed stationary.

54
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But you could see there were lights.

55
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I mean, it looked like lights.

56
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And no, no way to see out of it, no opening, no door or anything on it.

57
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Not on the underside, no thrust, no noise.

58
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And they couldn't see it on radar.

59
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And we have radar on our plane and we couldn't see it on our radar either.

60
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Did you pick up any turbulence from it?

61
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No, none.

62
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:23,000
Okay.

63
00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:24,000
How about an instrument?

64
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Interference.

65
00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:26,000
Everything works fine.

66
00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,000
Okay.

67
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I know it sounds crazy, but I mean, I've been in the Air Force and I've flown for a long

68
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time and I've seen, I know what things look like and this is broad daylight.

69
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And my copot and myself, the only two in the plane.

70
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Nobody else has been in it.

71
00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,000
Okay, sir, how long did you have that on your observation?

72
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The first time for about eight minutes and the second time for about two minutes.

73
00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:54,000
Okay.

74
00:03:54,000 --> 00:04:03,000
Concentratively, because we used to have to gauge distance pretty accurately.

75
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:07,000
Okay, did you get the feeling that you were being watched?

76
00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,000
No, really.

77
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I think whatever it was, it could be more interesting than an airplane.

78
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Okay.

79
00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:21,000
I don't know why I get that feeling, but I mean, there's no windows or anything in it.

80
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So there's no way anything can look out of it.

81
00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:24,000
Okay.

82
00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,000
Did you get any more input from Los Angeles Center?

83
00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:33,000
We just told them what we saw and they said, oh, they said, well, it's not on radar and

84
00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,000
it's not a threat to you.

85
00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,000
They said it's probably just a reflection or something.

86
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,000
So I said, well, what should I do?

87
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And he said, well, no, do anything.

88
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Just stay there.

89
00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:48,000
So then when we landed, the men's guy called up on the phone and said, do you want to report

90
00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:49,000
on this?

91
00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,000
And they said, no, we don't care about that anymore.

92
00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,000
They just called us number and they'll take information.

93
00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:55,000
Okay.

94
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I don't know why they don't care, but they don't seem to.

95
00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,000
So we get your name?

96
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:02,000
Yeah.

97
00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:07,000
London, WC2, England.

98
00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,000
I fly for IBM.

99
00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:15,000
I fly one of the three aircrafts we use for world transport.

100
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So I'm not in London.

101
00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,000
I'm usually in the air somewhere.

102
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:20,000
Okay.

103
00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:25,000
If you had any trouble reaching me, my copilot has an address in the United States.

104
00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:26,000
Okay.

105
00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:27,000
What is his name?

106
00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:31,000
Well, sir, we sure appreciate you reporting this.

107
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I know.

108
00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:37,000
It doesn't, it's only, you know, his and my word, you know, but.

109
00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:42,000
Oh, no problem because the majority of these UFO reports, I'll come from single witnesses

110
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anyway.

111
00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:44,000
Oh.

112
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Two at the most.

113
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That's about the majority catalog.

114
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:54,000
The thing that surprised me is we just, you know, the ADIS is.

115
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,000
Yes.

116
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:56,000
The air defense identification zone.

117
00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:57,000
Right.

118
00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:01,000
Well, the radar at that point is very, very, you know, precise and it can go all the way

119
00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,000
down to the surface for Russian aircraft.

120
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,000
And they always, always tell you whenever you cross that to let them know because they'll

121
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,000
send fighters after you if you don't tell them you cross it.

122
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,000
And we had just crossed it about five minutes before this.

123
00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:19,000
And so I figured, you know, we're still inside that zone and they've got to see this guy,

124
00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:20,000
but they didn't.

125
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And so he went right through that, that area without being there.

126
00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,000
The speed conservative, I would say is at Mach 3.

127
00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,000
Okay.

128
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:35,000
Is there any question in your mind about, or any doubt in your mind about this being a

129
00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:36,000
metallic object?

130
00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,000
Yeah, there is.

131
00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,000
I couldn't say it was metal because the sun didn't reflect off.

132
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:48,000
And you could see, you could see a rippling the way Kansas does on a wing, on older airplanes.

133
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,000
You can see the air had an effect on it.

134
00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,000
I can almost say for sure it wasn't metal.

135
00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,000
Okay.

136
00:06:55,000 --> 00:07:07,000
And if it was a metal, we have a, we have a particle sensor in the airplane that we use

137
00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:12,000
for, well, the airplane we just bought from Shell Oil.

138
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:17,000
And Shell used it, they were using part of it for geographic, geological things.

139
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:18,000
Oh, yes.

140
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:23,000
And had metal sensors in it, and which can sense something to do with the earthquake and

141
00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:28,000
can sense when you get into areas of higher metal, you know, metal content in the ground.

142
00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:29,000
Right.

143
00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:34,000
And it didn't register anything because we had it turned on.

144
00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:35,000
All right, sir.

145
00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,000
Well, we sure appreciate this very much.

146
00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:41,000
And if we come up with any more information on that, we'll get back to you and let you know.

147
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,000
Neil, what do you do with the information now?

148
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:49,000
Well, of course, we break it down, go through a data reduction system, and we feed it in,

149
00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,000
or catalog it into the data bank.

150
00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:59,000
And then we use this data for the various research programs in our study in the field of ufology.

151
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:06,000
Well, the idea, though, I mean, you and other people believe that they are not from the planet, don't you?

152
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:07,000
Right.

153
00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:08,000
There's no doubt about that.

154
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,000
We feel they are not manufactured here.

155
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,000
Well, of course, it goes further than that.

156
00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:19,000
There's scientific organizations, and kind of off the total off the record,

157
00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:23,000
and officially, I guess NASA's convinced they're coming from deep space.

158
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They are.

159
00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:34,000
It's still a very controversial subject, but we've been in this study for 22 years,

160
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,000
and we feel that they're coming from space.

161
00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:41,000
Yeah, well, this thing is very, very maneuverable.

162
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:46,000
It moves sideways once very rapidly, and I think it sort of had the power

163
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,000
that too much trouble at all is pushing a thousand skies.

164
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,000
I sort of kept that impression.

165
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:57,000
It seemed like if it could move laterally if it wanted to,

166
00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,000
it could have just sliced the ship in two, no trouble at all.

167
00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,000
Was that movement toward you?

168
00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:07,000
Yeah, it moved laterally, I'd say about 100 feet and stopped, moved laterally back.

169
00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,000
But I mean, it was instant, as long as it had to blink your eye.

170
00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,000
Right.

171
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:17,000
And the acceleration was not...

172
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:25,000
I used to chase MiGs during the war, which the MiG-25 is fairly powerful,

173
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:30,000
and when they gave it full thrust and full afterburner, it was fast,

174
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:37,000
but there was that momentary delay, what it takes for the power to the output to have an effect.

175
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,000
Right.

176
00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,000
Well, this didn't have any... there's no hesitation.

177
00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:48,000
It just went from R-speed, which is about Mach 9-4 to about triple that,

178
00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:54,000
I mean, instantly, no hesitation, no noise, no interference, no thrust.

179
00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,000
Stopped without slowing down.

180
00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,000
No, no, it sped up without...

181
00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,000
Oh, yeah, then we caught up with it.

182
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,000
He was just sort of waiting the... I think he might have been hovering there,

183
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,000
because we caught up to him pretty easily.

184
00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,000
I don't know why he went ahead and stopped.

185
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,000
Oh, that fits the pattern of other reports.

186
00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,000
And he stayed on the left side, on the pilot side, my side, up the whole time.

187
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,000
He didn't... he never crossed to the other side.

188
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,000
Which I don't think is so surprising to me.

189
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:25,000
I wonder if they know that the pilot command is on the left side.

190
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:29,000
Well, they pull... I think so, because they pull the same trick when they...

191
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:34,000
we had what we call close encounters involving vehicles on the roadway.

192
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:38,000
The majority of the times they'll always come in on the driver's side.

193
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,000
Yeah.

194
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,000
But I had a feeling... I had a feeling of weakness there.

195
00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:47,000
I had a feeling that it would have been very easy for him just to, you know,

196
00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,000
have some sort of energy to push him out of the sky.

197
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,000
You sort of get those feelings, you know.

198
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,000
I think you're right.

199
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:59,000
Yeah. So... oh, let me try to tell you. So you can know.

200
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:08,000
And there was the United Jets, 4,000 feet above us, during part of this.

201
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,000
And they didn't see it at all.

202
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,000
We asked them, they were looking for it, and they didn't see it.

203
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,000
Alright, sure. We'll we thank you again.

204
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,000
Okay, fine.